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	<title>Comments on: It Made Me Want to Drown Things &#8211; Thoughts on My Beloved Tomb Raider</title>
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	<link>http://www.unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/</link>
	<description>Videogames &#38; Geek Culture</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 15:15:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: ??????????????????? &#171; ???????</title>
		<link>http://www.unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/comment-page-1/#comment-62095</link>
		<dc:creator>??????????????????? &#171; ???????</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 May 2013 12:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unwinnable.com/?p=31847#comment-62095</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] ??????????? ???? ????? ???? ???????????????? ????“??”???? ????????????????; ????????????????? ????????????? (??????3)? ????????? ???????????????·???????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????——??????????????? [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ??????????? ???? ????? ???? ???????????????? ????“??”???? ????????????????; ????????????????? ????????????? (??????3)? ????????? ???????????????·???????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????——??????????????? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Watcher</title>
		<link>http://www.unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/comment-page-1/#comment-55968</link>
		<dc:creator>Watcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Mar 2013 12:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unwinnable.com/?p=31847#comment-55968</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The action is more gruesome and realistic. My partner has just started playing the new Lara and rather than enjoying seeing her die over and over. He is more compelled to get her through it. He has commented on the excessive violence as in feeling that it is over done. Initially I agreed with the viewpoint of yours and many others about how this was problematic, but after watching him play and his reactions to it. I kind of think it might be a wake up call to what real violence is. It is not glamorised like in mortal kombat as an aim of the game, you are actively trying to avoid getting hurt and blood splattering the camera. 
 
Particularly on the attempted rape scene I could tell that he was uncomfortable playing that section, from a nervous laugh (the kind you hear at funerals) and then commenting about how difficult to defeat the assailant was. To then trying to minimise what actually happened and what she(he) had to do to get out of the situation. I could tell from the look on his face, that in the back of his mind he was thinking is this what actually happens to women.  
 
Of course there will always be people who don&#039;t see this view, but I think it might be an eyeopener for many. 
 
Having said that the constant moans and cries and whimpers are completely unrealistic and do become quite irritating. The are like you say overly sexualised. As a martial artist I have observed little difference between men and women crying out in pain and both build up tolerances pretty quickly. In fact for me the more serious and painful something is the more likely my body is to shut down/delay my pain receptors. I really hope that Lara&#039;s moans start to decrease as the game progresses and she starts to get that numbness that goes with shock and trauma. They haven&#039;t once shown her properly angry yet either. They do show her empathy though and I think this is a great strength and the story is interesting. 
 
On a sidenote: He said there is a lot more fighting than puzzle solving in this version. Something we both prefer in our game playing. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The action is more gruesome and realistic. My partner has just started playing the new Lara and rather than enjoying seeing her die over and over. He is more compelled to get her through it. He has commented on the excessive violence as in feeling that it is over done. Initially I agreed with the viewpoint of yours and many others about how this was problematic, but after watching him play and his reactions to it. I kind of think it might be a wake up call to what real violence is. It is not glamorised like in mortal kombat as an aim of the game, you are actively trying to avoid getting hurt and blood splattering the camera. </p>
<p>Particularly on the attempted rape scene I could tell that he was uncomfortable playing that section, from a nervous laugh (the kind you hear at funerals) and then commenting about how difficult to defeat the assailant was. To then trying to minimise what actually happened and what she(he) had to do to get out of the situation. I could tell from the look on his face, that in the back of his mind he was thinking is this what actually happens to women.  </p>
<p>Of course there will always be people who don&#039;t see this view, but I think it might be an eyeopener for many. </p>
<p>Having said that the constant moans and cries and whimpers are completely unrealistic and do become quite irritating. The are like you say overly sexualised. As a martial artist I have observed little difference between men and women crying out in pain and both build up tolerances pretty quickly. In fact for me the more serious and painful something is the more likely my body is to shut down/delay my pain receptors. I really hope that Lara&#039;s moans start to decrease as the game progresses and she starts to get that numbness that goes with shock and trauma. They haven&#039;t once shown her properly angry yet either. They do show her empathy though and I think this is a great strength and the story is interesting. </p>
<p>On a sidenote: He said there is a lot more fighting than puzzle solving in this version. Something we both prefer in our game playing. </p>
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		<title>By: Green Eyes Fashion</title>
		<link>http://www.unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/comment-page-1/#comment-53918</link>
		<dc:creator>Green Eyes Fashion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unwinnable.com/?p=31847#comment-53918</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You have perfectly summed up my immediate opinions on the issues in this game as I first watched the walkthrough weeks ago, having never played or watched anything in the Tomb Raider franchise I was shocked at the overtly explicit masochism that seems present in the game. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have perfectly summed up my immediate opinions on the issues in this game as I first watched the walkthrough weeks ago, having never played or watched anything in the Tomb Raider franchise I was shocked at the overtly explicit masochism that seems present in the game. </p>
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		<title>By: Panino Manino</title>
		<link>http://www.unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/comment-page-1/#comment-52774</link>
		<dc:creator>Panino Manino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 13:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unwinnable.com/?p=31847#comment-52774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A few things caught my attention in this text, and are equivocal. 
Firstly, this new game is an origin story, which take place BEFORE Lara became the independent heroine that everyone knows. It could be her or anyone else, in an extreme situation is natural to feel empathy and want to at least help, and in her case the producers chose to confront her with extreme challenges to form her character to make her on adventuress we know, she begins the game as some girl and ends as Lara Croft. 
 
Anyway, talking about the misconceptions. 
You are VERY wrong to say that these games are made only for men, and especially BY men only. Nowadays there are many women in video games industry, including in Crystal Dinamics. For better or for worse, many of the ideas that are being criticized in this game came from writer Rhiana Pratchett. This at least suggests that this sexist bias (in general) has at least the connivance of (some) women. 
Another HUGE mistake is when commenting about Uncharted, it almost seems like that new &quot;joke&quot;/meme &quot;It was my privilege&quot;. If you do not know, a woman is one of the powerful of the Naughty Dog studio, Amy Henning is the creator and designer of the series, the very soul of the characters in the series is her credit. Actually Uncharted is a neutral game in this respect, because you have several female characters portrayed with decent dignity in the series, but you picked up to make contrast with the alleged problems in Tomb Raider and unfairly convicted that game, as if it had guilt for being &quot;well done&quot;. 
 
Over time the games are getting better in this aspect, compare with what was years ago. 
Currently they are on an average cultural market hollywood&#039;s level and the trend is increasingly improving. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few things caught my attention in this text, and are equivocal.<br />
Firstly, this new game is an origin story, which take place BEFORE Lara became the independent heroine that everyone knows. It could be her or anyone else, in an extreme situation is natural to feel empathy and want to at least help, and in her case the producers chose to confront her with extreme challenges to form her character to make her on adventuress we know, she begins the game as some girl and ends as Lara Croft. </p>
<p>Anyway, talking about the misconceptions.<br />
You are VERY wrong to say that these games are made only for men, and especially BY men only. Nowadays there are many women in video games industry, including in Crystal Dinamics. For better or for worse, many of the ideas that are being criticized in this game came from writer Rhiana Pratchett. This at least suggests that this sexist bias (in general) has at least the connivance of (some) women.<br />
Another HUGE mistake is when commenting about Uncharted, it almost seems like that new &quot;joke&quot;/meme &quot;It was my privilege&quot;. If you do not know, a woman is one of the powerful of the Naughty Dog studio, Amy Henning is the creator and designer of the series, the very soul of the characters in the series is her credit. Actually Uncharted is a neutral game in this respect, because you have several female characters portrayed with decent dignity in the series, but you picked up to make contrast with the alleged problems in Tomb Raider and unfairly convicted that game, as if it had guilt for being &quot;well done&quot;. </p>
<p>Over time the games are getting better in this aspect, compare with what was years ago.<br />
Currently they are on an average cultural market hollywood&#039;s level and the trend is increasingly improving. </p>
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		<title>By: My Games of the Year &#124; Unwinnable</title>
		<link>http://www.unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/comment-page-1/#comment-46788</link>
		<dc:creator>My Games of the Year &#124; Unwinnable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2012 08:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unwinnable.com/?p=31847#comment-46788</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] There were ways I could write and be heard and be insulted [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There were ways I could write and be heard and be insulted [...]</p>
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		<title>By: A Digest to Digest To – Thanksgiving 2012 &#124; Unwinnable</title>
		<link>http://www.unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/comment-page-1/#comment-44311</link>
		<dc:creator>A Digest to Digest To – Thanksgiving 2012 &#124; Unwinnable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 05:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unwinnable.com/?p=31847#comment-44311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Heavier fare is next! First, Stu Horvath talks about love. Cara Ellison looks at gender roles in Tomb Raider while Earnest &#8220;Nex&#8221; Cavalli uses Max Payne 3 to ponder colonialism in South America. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Heavier fare is next! First, Stu Horvath talks about love. Cara Ellison looks at gender roles in Tomb Raider while Earnest &#8220;Nex&#8221; Cavalli uses Max Payne 3 to ponder colonialism in South America. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ethics in the Video Game Industry are Changing &#171; High Concepts</title>
		<link>http://www.unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/comment-page-1/#comment-40117</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethics in the Video Game Industry are Changing &#171; High Concepts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 05:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unwinnable.com/?p=31847#comment-40117</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Jason Schreier at E3, and what he said ignited a firestorm among rape survivors, critics and fans of the series.  Describing Lara Crofts beginnings he [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jason Schreier at E3, and what he said ignited a firestorm among rape survivors, critics and fans of the series.  Describing Lara Crofts beginnings he [...]</p>
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		<title>By: @Carachan1</title>
		<link>http://www.unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/comment-page-1/#comment-39245</link>
		<dc:creator>@Carachan1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unwinnable.com/?p=31847#comment-39245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is a video here on Critical Path where Toby Gard talks about Lara Croft, who worked on the Tomb Raider series from the beginning, and the feelings of &#039;protection&#039; and how gamers get off on her deaths: &lt;a href=&quot;http://criticalpathproject.com/?v=38443522&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://criticalpathproject.com/?v=38443522&lt;/a&gt; ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a video here on Critical Path where Toby Gard talks about Lara Croft, who worked on the Tomb Raider series from the beginning, and the feelings of &#039;protection&#039; and how gamers get off on her deaths: <a href="http://criticalpathproject.com/?v=38443522" rel="nofollow">http://criticalpathproject.com/?v=38443522</a> </p>
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		<title>By: @Carachan1</title>
		<link>http://www.unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/comment-page-1/#comment-39244</link>
		<dc:creator>@Carachan1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unwinnable.com/?p=31847#comment-39244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, I include the idea that women might be capable of gross animalistic behaviour in the paragraph that goes on and on about how the all-female E3 whoops and cheers at Nathan&#039;s sexualisation. Too much leeway on rape culture will lead to that sort of thing, with anyone. 
 
I find &#039;bitch&#039; a particularly offensive word, more so than any other, because it really is intended in many ways to get women to shut up. It was an observation that I have made that still nags at me, because I don&#039;t think it&#039;s appropriate to say that to a female person, or a female avatar. It makes me feel uncomfortable. I&#039;m sorry if my feeling uncomfortable, and talking about it, makes you feel uncomfortable. 
 
I am not venomous at all to any men, or women. Some people in video game culture are venomous towards women though. This is unfortunate. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I include the idea that women might be capable of gross animalistic behaviour in the paragraph that goes on and on about how the all-female E3 whoops and cheers at Nathan&#039;s sexualisation. Too much leeway on rape culture will lead to that sort of thing, with anyone. </p>
<p>I find &#039;bitch&#039; a particularly offensive word, more so than any other, because it really is intended in many ways to get women to shut up. It was an observation that I have made that still nags at me, because I don&#039;t think it&#039;s appropriate to say that to a female person, or a female avatar. It makes me feel uncomfortable. I&#039;m sorry if my feeling uncomfortable, and talking about it, makes you feel uncomfortable. </p>
<p>I am not venomous at all to any men, or women. Some people in video game culture are venomous towards women though. This is unfortunate. </p>
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		<title>By: Maxwell</title>
		<link>http://www.unwinnable.com/2012/06/14/it-made-me-want-to-drown-things-thoughts-on-my-beloved-tomb-raider/comment-page-1/#comment-38410</link>
		<dc:creator>Maxwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.unwinnable.com/?p=31847#comment-38410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ 
The implications here are astounding. Only women are victims of sexual abuse? Only men are capable of perpetrating it? Men see an attractive woman as an invitation to sexual assault? Perhaps this is an oversensitive reading of that statement, perhaps the error is mine, but to me that reeks of a disgusting and divisive attempt to make sexism the solitary burden of men, to discredit the idea that any man does not want to harm a woman or that any woman can or would harm a man. 
 
Finally, the reference to male gamers shouting &quot;Bitch&quot; at Lara after failing a jump is just pathetic. Yes, &quot;bitch&quot; is a word associated with the feminine. That does not mean that expressing frustration at a game character is sexist. Frankly, if Silent Hill&#039;s Harry Mason could get away with me calling him something as innocuous as a bitch after blundering into a fucking monster nurse for the fortieth time, he and my fiancee&#039;s ears would be overcome with an almost biblical sense of joy. 
 
The state of female characters, particularly protagonists, in gaming could use some improvement. This is improvement that I would love to see coming, and the existence of articles that act as concrete proof of the existence of a female market for video games gives me hope to see it. Sexism, however, is a two-way street and the accusatory, almost venomous tone this particular article took towards men seemed counter-productive if not hypocritical to me. 
 
(2/2) 
 
I apologize for the double-post, my utter lack of a life is showing in my overzealous TL;DRing ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>
The implications here are astounding. Only women are victims of sexual abuse? Only men are capable of perpetrating it? Men see an attractive woman as an invitation to sexual assault? Perhaps this is an oversensitive reading of that statement, perhaps the error is mine, but to me that reeks of a disgusting and divisive attempt to make sexism the solitary burden of men, to discredit the idea that any man does not want to harm a woman or that any woman can or would harm a man. </p>
<p>Finally, the reference to male gamers shouting &quot;Bitch&quot; at Lara after failing a jump is just pathetic. Yes, &quot;bitch&quot; is a word associated with the feminine. That does not mean that expressing frustration at a game character is sexist. Frankly, if Silent Hill&#039;s Harry Mason could get away with me calling him something as innocuous as a bitch after blundering into a fucking monster nurse for the fortieth time, he and my fiancee&#039;s ears would be overcome with an almost biblical sense of joy. </p>
<p>The state of female characters, particularly protagonists, in gaming could use some improvement. This is improvement that I would love to see coming, and the existence of articles that act as concrete proof of the existence of a female market for video games gives me hope to see it. Sexism, however, is a two-way street and the accusatory, almost venomous tone this particular article took towards men seemed counter-productive if not hypocritical to me. </p>
<p>(2/2) </p>
<p>I apologize for the double-post, my utter lack of a life is showing in my overzealous TL;DRing </p>
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